No Country by Patrice Aggs and Joe Brady (David Fickling Books, 2021)
The world of graphic novels for primary-school-aged children is an exciting one nowadays. There are the comic-book hijinks, larger-than-life characters, pulse-popping tales of InvestiGators, Bunny vs. Monkey and Amulet; but there is an increasing range of stories that introduce children to more serious issues through the uniquely visual style that only graphic novels can provide. For the children I teach, Jerry Craft's New Kid has raised questions around equality while When Stars are Scattered has opened their eyes to the refugee crisis, to name but two very popular examples. No Country by Patrice Aggs and Joe Brady combines both the thrills of a traditional and the startling wake up call to the contemporary horrors of civil war. I read it in one sitting (unusual for me, as I often need to take time to process what I'm reading) but I literally could not put it down. I've strongly recommended it to my class and everyone who has read it has been equally excited - and also not been able to stop reading!
It's a terrifying read in a lot of ways: a family are torn apart by civil unrest and - as with Boy Everywhere by A.M. Dassu - I could not fail to feel the impact: this could so easily happen to any of us, I thought. As with the best of reading, I've been left with more questions than I had when I began the book, so it's been an absolute joy to have been given the opportunity to interview Patrice and Joe about their writing and No Country in particular.
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Hi Patrice and Joe! I really enjoyed No Country and it's really resonated with some of my recent reading, such as AM Dassu's Boy, Everywhere and When Stars are Scattered by Victoria Jamieson and Omar Mohamed. What was the original
inspiration for your story? Where did it all start?
JOE: Refugees from Syria, the nativist reaction to it in the UK and
elsewhere, and what I felt was a general empathy deficit around the whole
crisis were triggers for the book. But for me, it’s also about something
quieter and more personal.
I moved to England in 2008
and, while I was not forced to leave my home, I feel a persistent longing
toward that place where I’m from – even though it doesn’t exist in the same way
as when I left it. Basically, I’m happy here in England and at the same time
I’m homesick all the time. On the surface, No Country is a story about
refugees, but to me, deeper down, it’s also about the longing to be home and
how that tears you in two. That’s what is vital to me personally about this
story.
And what about the title, 'No Country'? Where did that come from?
JOE: The title was one of the last things to come together. We went
back and forth so much about it, and we came up with so so so many other
options. I won’t mention what those titles were, but there were a lot of them.
When I’m trying to come up with an idea, I tend make very long lists of (mostly
very bad) possibilities, and make other people listen as I read them out loud.
When I got to No Country, it just felt right to everyone in the room. To me, the title ‘No
Country’ is about believing so strongly in something like a nation that it
forms a key component of your identity, only to have that thing vanish and you
discover that it’s only ever been an illusion
How did publishing the story
originally as a part-work in a weekly comic affect your thinking and writing of
the story?
JOE: There’s something very special and vanishingly rare in this format
in that it forces kids to wait a week to find out what happens next in a story.
This leaves them with space to think about the story and predict what might
happen next. On a larger scale, this means that Phoenix stories get to unfold
in the imaginations of kids for months, giving them so much space to create and
imprint themselves alongside the story.
Originally, No Country
was all going to be about the weekly format. It wasn’t intended to have a
single narrative at all. No Country was conceived as a series of short
stories about life in this particular world. They weren’t explicitly related, I
just wanted readers to go through a series of experiences with these characters
in hopes that they would start to feel like friends. As we went on with making
it, we started noticing through lines and connections, and then found ways to
tie them together. And eventually we bound it together into a single book –
including adding four brand-new never before seen scenes!
PATRICE:
It's like a dress rehearsal. Things get seen more clearly and more
rhythmically until the whole show comes together in the book. I love
rethinking pages, expanding or contracting scenes until we hit the right spot!
Of course a weekly deadline makes everything more urgent, but that's a bonus a
lot of the time. I'm sure Joe would agree that it kept both of us from
over-thinking, so we could keep our ideas fresh.
The book has an almost breathless
pace and grips the reader from the very start. How did you go about achieving
this? How important is pace to you as storytellers?
JOE: Thank you! A few people have said that the story is gripping, and
I’m really happy to hear it. Pace is very important as a storyteller. I suppose
where the pacing comes in No Country is the tension built in the space
between what they want as characters and what they have. We worked hard to keep
their goals just at the tips of their fingers but never fully in their hands.
Towards the ending we did
actively try to make it fast paced. The story elements that, for me, raised the
pace were the life or death stakes and the separation from Dad’s protection. We
also made a choice to swing between the extremes of relief and terror as much
as possible. The happiness at getting food in the supermarket shifts into the
shock of being accosted on the street, which folds into the reprieve of
returning home… I’ll stop with the spoilers now.
PATRICE:
Joe's a great writer! It started as a weekly! That sums it up for me.
Although
the narrative is fictional, the scenario feels very real. How did you go about
creating an authenticity around the situation the family find themselves in?
JOE: From a writing and preparation perspective, I tried to tackle the
idea of what Bea’s life was like in a systematic way. One of the first scenes I
wrote was the one in which Dad talks to Bea about what life was like before.
That came from lots of researching, talking about and thinking about what in
life we take for granted. I made lists of things we take for granted, bits of
our infrastructure that aren’t resilient, how we could cope if those things
were gone, and how does that feel in a tactile way. We started out by making
stories about Bea and the other characters dealing with each of those things
one at a time. Most of these stories didn’t make it in the book, but the ones
that did make up the heart of the plot of No Country.
But, really, the heavy lifting
of this was done by Patrice in the art. Her art is
filled with details that populate every nook and cranny of the world. The woman
doing washing up on page 18. The nervous look on Dad’s face as Dom (the baby
brother) chases a butterfly toward barbed wire on page 56. The soldier munching
on sweets as he tells people they aren’t allowed in the supermarket on page
137. One of my favourite panels in the book is on page 18, in which the family
are on the sofa talking to Mum. The way Bea, Dad and Hannah are positioned in
relation to each other feels so authentic to me, and that authenticity to how
the family feels is key to the feel to the rest of the book.
So many of these pages were very
different from what I expected as the writer, but that’s one of the most joyful
parts of being a comics writer: the artist teaches you things about your story.
In the creation of a comic, it’s the artist who is the direct storyteller; the
one who guides the readers through the world of the story. As the writer, I
created a lot of what eventually became the book, but ultimately, it’s the job
of the comics writer to pass the project to the artist, who then makes it feel
real.
Who are your big influences and
heroes of storytelling?
JOE: I’m
dyslexic, so I wasn’t actually a big reader as a kid. I read comics in the
newspapers like Calvin and Hobbes and The Far Side because they were nice and
short. I watched lots of films and TV too, but for my young self the magic was
in the theatre.
Theatre is the big influence in
storytelling for me. There’s so much joy in getting together with a group of
people, stepping into the story together and carrying on at all costs; all to
an end of inviting an audience into that space. Reading Keith Johnston’s books
on Improv was massively influential and Stanislavski’s thoughts on acting
really seem to apply to storytelling. Also influential were the countless drama
teachers who showed me what it means to inhabit a person within a
narrative. From studying theatre in high
school, I knew I wanted to work in creating stories when I grew up and that I
wanted that work to be collaborative, which writing comics really is.
But, if there was an author that really
turned my brain on, it was Kurt Vonnegut.
PATRICE:
When I did a school visit as a children's book 'visiting illustrator' years and
years ago, the kids asked what was the best story I'd ever drawn pictures for.
I told them the best book I'd ever done was by an author they probably hadn't
heard of - Phillip Pullman. Well, they've heard of him now.
Comic heroes are almost too many to list, like
trying to do a Desert Island Discs version for illustrators. But 'illustrating'
is not what comics do - they tell the story in a more integrated way. The
best learn their craft in the old 3-panel strip format from American
newspapers, in my opinion. That's why my heroes include people like Leonard
Starr and Chic Young. (Who they? I hear you ask) I love the storytelling skills
of Jillian & Mariko Tamaki, Herge, and, again, Pat Mills. My
pictures are always influenced by Emmanuel Guibert and Joann Sfar, even though
I don't draw like either of them!
How do you feel the story and pictures
connect young readers to the crisis?
JOE: I wanted to tell a story to the readers that inverts what is
familiar: a story that starts in a collapsed warring state which feels like
home, and moves to a functional society that feels strange and foreign. I’d
like No Country to be a bridge which helps connect readers emotionally
to the crisis. My hope is that it will help them look at stories in the news
and see the actual people. The circumstances of the lives of a kid from England
and a kid from Syria who was forced to escape violence are vastly different,
but the inherent value of those kids is precisely equal. I hope after finishing
No Country, readers can sense the fundamental equality all people share,
so that when they next come across a story about a refugee elsewhere in their
life, they’ll approach that person with a higher level of empathy and will
consider the people coming here in a more personal and compassionate way.
PATRICE:
Comics are a magnet for kids! As a big kid, I'm immediately drawn to a page of
pictures and speech balloons. The connection is instant, and only gets
better as I slowly absorb it panel-by-panel. With a big topic like a
refugee crisis, it helps to break it down into digestible portions. Young
readers really want to know what is going on behind headlines and usually don't
know where to start. I wish someone would do a history comic about the Cuban
Missile Crisis, something that happened when I was eight, and I never figured
out what. All I knew was the grown-ups were scared.
What are the benefits and challenges
of presenting the refugee crisis as a graphic novel?
PATRICE:
Everything is more urgent and believable for me if I can draw it out, make
it visual in a sequential way. There are so many great comics out there that do
this! Joe Sacco's Palestine, Ruta Moden's Exit Wounds, Pat Mills' Charley's War
- when I wasn't sure what to draw, what to emphasize, it was a great help to
reach for these and explore how they did it. It makes me want
to tackle a lot more when I revisit those superstars.
JOE: There are no words to describe what these millions of people are
living through. The benefit of graphic novels is that you don’t always have to
find them. With the lightest touch, we can show the readers the characters’
lives – let them visit a place they’d never be able to see otherwise.
Readers get to sit with
the people and places of a graphic novel for as long as they want (unlike, say,
a film which is a medium that dictates the time we get with each image or prose
that asks the reader to take in every bit of information in linear order).
Comics readers’ eyes are allowed to wander off the charted narrative in a way
that simply doesn’t work the same in other media. For example, the first image
of the book is Bea looking at her dad when he thinks he’s alone. It is the only
moment when his mask slips and we can see how sad and lonely he is. Like Bea at
the time, we’re too young in this world at this point to fully appreciate what
we’re seeing at that moment, so we might miss the nuance, but we might not. And
that’s just the central action! Behind that image and around it, there are so
many details that film or prose would either have to brush over for pacing or
overly focus on – the bees on the page, the discarded posters outside, the
overstuffed bins, the discarded bottles on the mantle. Comics readers can slow
down and take in the scene, or speed up and find out what happens next – they
are in the driver’s seat. It’s one of the things that makes comics such a
special medium.
They certainly are! Thank you so much, Joe and Patrice. I've loved reading No Country and I absolutely cannot wait for the next installment!